17 JUNE 1940Reynaud has resigned, Pétain has become the Premier and other members of the Cabinet have been picked from the military. NIRODBARAN: Was there any difference in policy among the members of the Cabinet? SRI AUROBINDO: Probably. Reynaud is unpopular. Now it is practically a military dictatorship. PURANI: Even after the war it may remain. Most of them seem to be Catholics and from the right wing. NIRODBARAN: Weygand hasn't shown any remarkable qualities till now. SATYENDRA: Pétain has no time, and besides the supplies and equipment are too poor. What can he do? At present what is most necessary is men; equipment doesn't matter so much. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh, it does matter. They say that because their ammunition was exhausted they couldn't use the seventy-five-mm gun. On the first day they were able to destroy four hundred tanks. Afterwards we didn't hear any more about this. This was due to lack of ammunition. NIRODBARAN: The Germans have now reached the south end of the Maginot Line. SRI AUROBINDO: That means all industrial areas have fallen into their hands. The British have opened disused coal mines in Wales to supply coal to France. SATYENDRA: The situation is very grave now. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, one of the tactics Germany applied was to capture the generals by means of tanks so that the troops might get disorganised. NIRODBARAN: And at this late hour England is calling up the twenty-nine-year-old age-group. People who are twenty-nine years old are quite strong and able-bodied; they could have been called up long ago. SRI AUROBINDO: Quite so. I suppose they wanted to keep men for commerce, agriculture, industry, etc., so that export would go on leisurely as in 1914. PURANI: And they could rely on the blockade. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, but except for war materials the blockade can't be so effective if Hitler becomes master of Europe. Page -720 EVENINGNews arrived at about 6.20 p.m. that Pétain has decided to stop fighting and negotiate with Hitler for honourable peace terms. The Mother gave the news to Sri Aurobindo and went away.
SRI AUROBINDO (after reading the news): France has stopped the fight. This is Pétain's doing. He is too old!
Naturally it came as a great surprise and we were all thrown into a gloom.
PURANI (later in the evening): No terms have been given yet? SRI AUROBINDO: No. NIRODBARAN: It seems to me France has acted more dishonourably than the Belgian king. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh, yes. Besides, Hitler now becomes the master of Europe. NIRODBARAN: But why has France done this? She still has a huge army and navy intact. She could have withdrawn somewhere else, as Reynaud said, instead of surrendering like that. PURANI: France has become decadent now. NIRODBARAN: Hope England won't give up. SATYENDRA: I don't think she will. SRI AUROBINDO: The English don't give up. But it has to be seen if England also has become decadent or not. After all Poland fought much better than France. It was only the Polish generals who were incompetent, the people went on fighting. Finland also fought very well. SATYENDRA: In Belgium it was the king, not the Government who surrendered; but here it was the Government that has surrendered. The navy could perhaps disobey and revolt? SRI AUROBINDO: Not possible. Pétain has put Admiral Darlan in the Ministry. The Navy is not likely to disobey him. PURANI: Now the Mediterranean situation will be critical. If Hitler gets the French fleet, then with Italy on his side he will be very powerful. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, and Turkey's position will be dangerous. Now only Hitler's death can save the situation. NIRODBARAN: Everybody is astounded, for Russia is already preparing for future attacks. Page -721 SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, the Russian Army has marched into Lithuania and Latvia, hasn't it? NIRODBARAN: Japan is threatening Indo-China and may capture it, any time now. She won't allow Germany there. PURANI: Yes, it must have shaken the whole political structure of the world and I think everybody realises the danger if Hitler occupies France. SRI AUROBINDO: Does India realise it? Everybody seems to be busy with his own interest and none considers anything in the light of the world situation. The Congress Committee is now in session. Will it realise the danger? NIRODBARAN: I think it will. SRI AUROBINDO : Let us hope so. Nehru seems to shut his eyes and calls all these fears of foreign invasion a bogey. I am wondering what our Ashram's fate will now be. Like the others we are also considering our own self-interest! (Laughter) Shall we be under Stalin or under Hitler? Stalin will be the more serious risk. NIRODBARAN: Why Stalin? He will first have to conquer India. SRI AUROBINDO: That won't take him a long time and he won't allow our existence at all. NIRODBARAN: The British will grab Pondicherry if France capitulates. SRI AUROBINDO: If England gives in to Germany, Japan may come and drop some bombs on India. PURANI: Could it be the result of Karma that France is being defeated and overrun? SRI AUROBINDO: Of course there is past Karma, but it is not fixed. It can be counter-balanced by the right Karma at present or it can exhaust itself through suffering. Even if France is conquered now, she can rise again through the exhaustion of her Karma by suffering. New forces can come into play. NIRODBARAN: In that case England also has a heavy Karma to pay for. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh yes. It has to be seen what she does. NIRODBARAN: If England had given India freedom, wouldn't that have counted morally? SRI AUROBINDO: Certainly, it would have had a great moral value for her. PURANI: Apart from that it would have been a great benefit from the practical point of view. Page -722 NIRODBARAN: That, of course, but I am talking of moral and spiritual values. PURANI: It seems Suryakumari or somebody else brought some French coins to the Mother; on seeing them the Mother said, "What coins are these? I don't know them. They seem to be the coins of a ruined country." It was after the Munich pact. SRI AUROBINDO: I didn't know about it. But when France betrayed Czechoslovakia the Mother said that France was condemned. NIRODBARAN: Do you foresee all possibilities? SRI AUROBINDO: The possibilities can be foreseen but we don't accept them as fixed or inevitable. They can be changed. PURANI: Reynaud should not have resigned. SRI AUROBINDO: What could he do? He is unpopular in France. And he is not a military man. He could have made a coup d'état and arrested all these people, but he must have felt that the nation would not be behind him. Now two things can save the world: one is Hitler's death and the other is if Hitler exhausts himself so much that he has to wait before farther adventures. In that case time will be gained. NIRODBARAN: If America and Russia joined with England, the three of them would make a formidable combination. SRI AUROBINDO: That is common sense. But nobody listens to common sense. Even if Hitler dies, there is Stalin. And if Stalin invades India, Subhas Bose and Nehru will oppose him, perhaps. NIRODBARAN: I wonder what Hitler's next move will be. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, it will be interesting to see what he does next. NIRODBARAN: Not likely that he will go to the Balkans, as it will involve him with Russia. He will now avoid friction with Russia and America. PURANI : America, of course, and America won't come in unless a variety of odd incidents happen: for instance, the sinking of an American ship. SRI AUROBINDO: Hitler will never do that. The Asura who guides him knows very well what would happen then. Page -723 18 JUNE 1940PURANI : The people in Pondicherry have become very panicky. They are thinking about what their fate will be now. SRI AUROBINDO: I see. SATYENDRA: The Working Committee of the Congress is sitting now. With the coming of the war it has set up a radio and trunk line. It must have got the bad news. But I don't know how much it will influence its decisions. People are talking about a National Government now. SRI AUROBINDO: But for Nehru's influence, Gandhi would have come to a compromise. PURANI: Rajagopalachari also seems to be in favour of some settlement. SRI AUROBINDO: He is a practical man. PURANI: I don't know how Churchill's offer to France of one nationality will work. Two nations temperamentally so different! SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): Yes, the French will say one thing, and the English will nod their heads to quite the opposite. PURANI: And France won't accept the king! SRI AUROBINDO: No! SATYENDRA: But it is a brilliant offer of an economic combination. SRI AUROBINDO: Not only economic but much more than that. Practically one nation. It is a tremendous step for the English, beyond all tradition, prejudice and character of the nation. PURANI: Yes, and after the war it might form the nucleus of a European federation. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, if they combine, the small nations may enter and the British dominions come in and, along with them, India may be asked to join. In that case it may turn into a world federation. The English do not seem to have lost their elasticity which is shown by two steps they have taken. The first is the socialisation of their government in two hours and the second is their offer to the French. The English lead a practical life; they don't live in ideas. That is why they are so successful in life. In times of crisis or necessity they are driven to take practical steps as the situation demands. NIRODBARAN: Only, they are not applying their practicality to India. Page -724 PURANI: They may not yet have felt the necessity. SRI AUROBINDO: Pétain and Weygand are inelastic and too old. Hitler is neither practical nor a man of ideas. Still he is very successful because of his remarkable inspirations. NIRODBARAN: Hitler has not yet sent any reply to France's peace offer. PURANI: He will be more cunning now in the face of the British proposal. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, as in the case of Czechoslovakia. He struck later at the most opportune moment. He knows that he can't conquer England without the support of France. Hitler's first idea was to get hold of the north of France so as to control the Channel ports. NIRODBARAN: The 20th of June is not very far away; today is the 18th. SRI AUROBINDO: Yesterday was Paul Richard's birthday. You know what he used to say? PURANI: No. SRI AUROBINDO: That his ideas would be fulfilled on his birthdays. NIRODBARAN: France can still retrieve her honour if she accepts England's offer. SRI AUROBINDO: Quite so. But, as I said, Pétain and Weygand are too old and inelastic. SATYENDRA: It is perhaps too late. SRI AUROBINDO: If it had been offered earlier they would not have accepted it. SATYENDRA: That is true. NIRODBARAN: It seems to me that the capitulation of Paris has demoralised the army. Otherwise how could the Germans advance so fast? SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. Besides, I don't understand Weygand's strategy of ceding territory to the enemy with the idea of exhausting him. That only lengthens the line of defence which is very difficult to keep together. It is only by a short line that the forces can be concentrated. It is the Champagne Line that is broken. The fall of Paris has, of course, divided the army into three sectors. The other two sectors are still fighting well. NIRODBARAN: Some people in India defend France's peace offer. They say, "What can the French do? Their army Page -725 was being annihilated. As they were defeated they had no other course." SRI AUROBINDO: That is the typical Indian mentality. That is why India is under subjection. Just because an army has been defeated, must it surrender? Will a subject nation then always be a subject nation? Won't it fight for freedom? See what the Poles have done. They have resisted in spite of their severe defeat. The Belgian and the Dutch Governments have not surrendered, they have withdrawn. PURANI: Besides, the French still have a big army intact. The navy and the air force are theirs. Why should they surrender? SRI AUROBINDO: Quite so. Moreover, as you go on fighting, moral and spiritual forces may rise up and assert themselves. No, France has become inferior now. NIRODBARAN: France does not believe in moral forces. SRI AUROBINDO: But ancient France did believe. NIRODBARAN: Dilip believes that England also will give up the fight. How can she fight alone? SRI AUROBINDO: She has always fought alone. That again is the Indian subject mentality. No great things can be done unless one sticks on in the face of defeat and failure. Hitler had himself been imprisoned but he stuck on like a bulldog even after defeat. Now he is the master of Europe.
EVENING
PURANI: It seems Reynaud has resigned on the issue of the appeal of Churchill, which he wanted to accept while Pétain and others didn't. And Pétain has started communication with Hitler, SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, they want military nationalism, that is why Pétain speaks of believing in the destiny of France. NIRODBARAN: I hope Hitler's terms will be unacceptable and that they will be forced to accept England's offer. SRI AUROBINDO: I hope they will accept this offer. To do so would be much better than the surrender of France to Hitler. SATYENDRA: If the Navy could get away - SRI AUROBINDO: Pétain has put two naval officers in his Cabinet to stop that. Unless there is a revolt in the Cabinet the outlook is bad. These people ought to be shot for the betrayal of France. Page -726 PURANI: In Africa the Italians are not faring very well. SRI AUROBINDO: No, the Africans don't seem to be willing to give their lives for the Italians. PURANI: Sammer still holds that if France declared herself communist, the Russians would attack Hitler and come to help France. And people here in Pondy believe that Hitler doesn't want the British Empire. He only wants hegemony among his colonies. SRI AUROBINDO: Are they so idiotic as to believe that he will be satisfied with that? He has said plainly in Mein Kampf that his aim is to destroy France and Russia. Now he is speaking of colonies which means that England also must be destroyed. These people know nothing about war. It is better for us to learn German now or both German and Russian — as a precaution! (Laughter)
19 JUNE 1940PURANI: The Berlin paper says that when Germany asked for peace in the last war, the Allies did not reply for six weeks. Why should they now expect a reply in two days? Let them remember Versailles. SRI AUROBINDO: Then what the Mother says may be true, that the Germans will keep silent so that the French Army may be crushed in the mean time. PURANI: Churchill says in his speech that almost all the British troops - , about three-and-a-half lakhs - have been removed from Dunkirk in a few days. SRI AUROBINDO: Three-and-a-half lakhs? Then he must be referring to the Flanders troops. For if they had sent such a big army the French people would not have quarrelled over insufficient British help. NIRODBARAN: But it has been said, "three-and-a-half lakhs during these few days". SRI AUROBINDO: There must be some confusion. Pavitra may have made some mistake. Churchill is usually very clear in his statements. NIRODBARAN: In some papers there was a complaint against inadequate supplies to France. PURANI: That can't be true after Churchill's speech. Page -727 SRI AUROBINDO: No. They sent three-and-a-half lakhs to Flanders and their best troops. After the Battle of Flanders, they sent only three divisions and Churchill has already said that it would take a long time to recover from the Flanders disaster. He asked that they should be properly equipped. Without the proper equipment it is sheer foolishness to send troops to fight against Germany. He promised Reynaud that he would send fifty thousand men and all available help. PURANI: Besides, the British have to keep a sufficient number to protect their own land. SRI AUROBINDO: Of course. Otherwise there would be a great danger. No, no, it is all French over-sensitiveness and suspiciousness. This is exactly what happened during the reign of Napoleon III - different political parties playing at governing the country and that is how he was defeated. PURANI: There is still a notion among people that England will fight to the last Frenchman. SATYENDRA: If that is so why are they calling France to unite with them? SRI AUROBINDO: They may be saying that to make France another dominion. SATYENDRA: But England sent her best troops and equipment to Flanders. SRI AUROBINDO: Quite so; besides, if France falls, England knows that it will be difficult for her to survive. PURANI: Some eye-witness describes that there is no organisation, no equipment in the French Army. They do not know what is happening. They think that a truce has been declared; so fighting has stopped and Germany is marching rapidly to take advantage of the situation. NIRODBARAN: And the troops have also become demoralised after the truce proclamation. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, the loss at Flanders, the capitulation of Paris and the truce have demoralised them. They may be thinking, "What is the use of being killed when we are going to surrender tomorrow?" Of course as soldiers they will fight, but not with heart. England has not shown any military genius but she has shown power of organisation while France has shown neither military nor organisational power. Gamelin is a fraud and Weygand and Pétain Page -728 too old. Weygand has done nothing remarkable. Neither has any other military genius shown himself. PURANI: England is now preparing vigorously. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, if Hitler gives them one more year, they will become tremendously powerful. Both Daladier and Chamberlain seem to be impotent. They have done nothing at all. The Mother says that Hitler has asked for all French colonies contiguous to the British. That means we go to Germany. (Laughter) NIRODBARAN: I do not think Hitler has heard the name of Pondicherry. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh yes. He knows every detail. In Germany they have schools for giving people such training and they know every town, every street in France and England. In the Kaiser's time, it is said, he knew even the location of trees in some places. Now it is more thorough. Japan and Germany are the most thoroughly organised countries.
EVENINGSATYENDRA: Some people here say that nothing happens without the sanction of the Divine Will and that nothing happens against Sri Aurobindo's will. I want to know if that is so. Germany's taking Czechoslovakia, Poland and other countries and bringing about the war - was all this sanctioned by your will? You said at that time you did not want war. SRI AUROBINDO: The will was that there must be no war. But I didn't want this will to be effected at the cost of betraying Czechoslovakia. Is the fighting going on in France due to my will? It is due to her own Karma. SATYENDRA: That is what I thought but you seem to have written to somebody that no major event happens against your will. SRI AUROBINDO: To whom and when have I written that? PURANI: Oh, I know. I think he is referring to Dilip's letter. You once wrote to him during the Abyssinian war that you have seen that whenever you have willed something, invariably it has been fulfilled. SRI AUROBINDO: That is a different matter. I willed in my boyhood that Ireland and Alsace-Lorraine should be free. Then I willed things which I forgot and afterwards they were fulfilled. Again, other things I willed, which I now don't want to be fulfilled, Page -729 but they have been and in a way which I don't want. I wanted the British Empire to be crushed and Hitler is now doing it in such a thorough fashion that I don't want it any more because Hitler has become a greater danger. (Laughter) Does it mean I willed that my leg should be broken? Or that France should be defeated? SATYENDRA: That is what I said to them. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, but that does not mean the absence of' consent. The Divine may consent to things and events happening, whose results may not be favourable for the present, but may lead to some utility in the future. The Divine doesn't see things from the human mental point of view or only from the present and immediate results. Perhaps people think that the Divine is like a super-Mussolini according to whose Will everything must turn. When a person descends to do some particular work for the Divine, he accepts the play of forces and works through that play so that ultimately the Divine Will may prevail and fulfill itself; for a time the opposing forces may conquer and the Divine Will withdraw, as is said in the Bhagavad Gita. Did not Sri Krishna have to leave the battle? The Divine foresees and provides for everything in the original plan but that plan is carried out through the play of forces whatever the ultimate purpose is. The Divine does not take up each particular thing and say that it must be done, that it must happen and so on - unless there is some Supreme Vision to be imperatively carried out. SATYENDRA: Besides, when he comes down into limited matter he himself becomes limited to some extent. SRI AUROBINDO: That limitation is a self-imposed limitation, Christ knew that he would be crucified and yet it was not the whole of him that wanted crucifixion. Some human part didn't want it and he prayed, "O God, let this cup be passed to somebody else." Everything that happens can be said to happen according to the Divine Will. SATYENDRA: That is a religious idea. SRI AUROBINDO: Only people who have reached a certain stage of consciousness can say that. For they see and know what is behind the play of things. For others it is only faith. And faith is sometimes very ignorant. NIRODBARAN: Have you read Arthur Moore's article? He has pleaded very strongly for Dominion Status. SATYENDRA: Many Europeans are now supporting it. Page -730 SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, it is only the bureaucracy, tied up in its old tradition and routine, that doesn't see things that way. 20 JUNE 1940NIRODBARAN: Japan is talking of sending an expeditionary force to Indo-China. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. The Governor there has intimated that he will resist. PURANI: There are plenty of Pondicherry people in the army there. NIRODBARAN: They have no chance against the Japanese Army. SRI AUROBINDO: Bulloch has said that the Indians can very quickly learn the technical side of warfare. Provided they get proper leadership, with sympathy and understanding, they can make very good soldiers. NIRODBARAN: Will England help - if the Governor asks - against Japan? SRI AUROBINDO: Can't say. England can help only with her navy. She has no troops there. Japan will attack overland. But if Japan attacks Indo-China, it will be the last straw on America's back. America won't tolerate Japan in the Pacific, just as during the Dutch East Indies question. NIRODBARAN: Japan may have a shot at Pondicherry too. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, but the navy will have to pass through Singapore, Malacca, etc. India will then be between Japan, Germany and Russia. SATYENDRA: Russia? Russia is far away and doesn't show any intention. SRI AUROBINDO: Russia is always silent before she acts. Nobody knows what is in Russia's mind until the last moment. The same with Japan. It is only now that Japan talks about her aims and objects. NIRODBARAN: Hitler is repeating his old game of asking for plenipotentiaries. In the meantime he intends to crush France. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, she must withdraw her army in time. There is a rumour that even if this Government submits, another Government will be started in London. Algeria will declare Page -731 independence. The commander of the Middle East will not submit and neither will the navy. PURANI: That will be very good. Hitler can't stop the navy. Except for the Italian Navy, he has no sea power. SRI AUROBINDO: Three things are important: French gold, her air force and her navy. If the navy falls to Hitler, it will be a difficult time for England. . PURANI: Oil reserves also; it is not known what the French have done with them - whether they have destroyed them or if they have fallen into enemy hands. It seems the Pétain Government is Fascist in tendency and wants to make an alliance with Germany and rule over France. SRI AUROBINDO: If Hitler allows. Even then, after taking England he will turn to them and destroy them completely. These people are idiots, not politicians. Hitler has clearly said in his Mein Kampf that France must be crushed. So long as France exists, Germany will be in danger. Hitler first wanted to make friends with England. When that failed, he said he had no enmity with France; his grudge is only against the English. His tactics are very familiar now. Nirodbaran (after a while): Another indictment against Bose by Bipin Ganguli. It seems that because Bose let out news about the talks of the Working Committee regarding acceptance or non-acceptance of the federation - talks which were confidential - Gandhi and the High Command strongly objected to the federation. It means Gandhi and the others were at one time in favour of accepting the federation. SRI AUROBINDO: Of course. Gandhi and Bulabhai Desai and Satyamurti were discussing it. It is Bose who spoiled it by his untimely disclosure. What Amery has said is true - that if the internal differences were resolved then Dominion Status would be easily granted. NIRODBARAN: But what can Congress do? SRI AUROBINDO: Why? They can take the four Muslim Premiers together - what Azad is doing now - and come to a solution and settle the Dominion Status. Once you get that, it is practically independence, even if that independence is precarious nowadays. It would be the next practical step. NIRODBARAN: Rajagopalachari, I think, would accept it. PURANI: Yes. Page -732 SRI AUROBINDO: It is only Nehru who would object. He lives in his ideas. PURANI: He may say, for example: "What interest has Japan in Indo-China?" (Laughter) SRI AUROBINDO: What interest had she in China? What interest had Hitler in Uruguay? They have unearthed a plot there which is evidently of Nazi origin. SATYENDRA: My paper — The Indian Express (laughter) — writes in its editorial that Nehru says, "Come to terms with the Muslims anyhow." NIRODBARAN: He may do quite the opposite the next day. SATYENDRA: Yes, as the conditions change. SRI AUROBINDO: That is supramental. PURANI: Rajagopalachari will be willing to accept Dominion Status, I think. SRI AUROBINDO : He is a practical man. Now they are neither doing civil disobedience nor going to the Ministry. Gandhi knows only his Charkha. The Charkha is going to give Swaraj, non-violence, everything— his wonderful "co-ordination" of ideas. NIRODBARAN: Won't it give realisation of God? SRI AUROBINDO: He has not come to that yet. But he has found the Charkha in the Gita. If India accepts Dominion Status, that will remove one of the difficulties of America's joining the war. NIRODBARAN: Is that really true? Some papers, of course, mention it. SRI AUROBINDO: Quite true. Even the British people have said that there is a strong sympathy for India in America. The Americans say, "England is fighting for her imperialism. Why should we fight for her?" NIRODBARAN: Of course. Duff Cooper also admits that there is a strong pro-India sentiment there. SRI AUROBINDO: Then? He is an imperialist. He doesn't want India to be free. Why should he say that if it were not true? (After some time) If England goes down, there won't be any free country left except Russia, Japan, Germany and Italy. I am speaking of the old world. I think the next war will be between Russia and Germany. If Russia finds that England is in a difficult position, then Stalin will put pressure on Turkey and Rumania for control of the Black Sea, as he has done with the Baltic states; of course, not Page -733 without difficulty, for they may resist. Hitler is not likely to keep quiet over the trouble in the Balkans. With Italy's help he may settle the Balkan problem and that of Asia Minor. Or he may allow Russia a free hand now, knowing that he can settle with her afterwards. NIRODBARAN: Will Pétain hand over France to Hitler? SRI AUROBINDO : These people — (Sri Aurobindo left his sentence incomplete.) EVENINGPURANI: The Governor-General of Madagascar has wired the Pondicherry Government that he is not going to accept peace and will fight on. Our Governor also has decided not to accept. And they are going to wire to Pétain not to make peace. SRI AUROBINDO: That will be a great thing. All these telegrams may put some shame into the heart of Pétain. I am afraid the news about the French fleet leaving for an unknown destination is not very reliable. It is American news. PURANI: Some part of the fleet is under the British command. They can prevent it from falling into German hands. SRI AUROBINDO: They can't force the navy. It is for the navy to decide. NIRODBARAN: They have not given out the names of the envoys. SRI AUROBINDO: No, one of them seems to be Bondain. He is pro-British. It is he who stands for an honourable peace. He is supposed to be a very capable man. It was due to him that the Indo-China bank flourished. PURANI: The envoys may be shouted down by Hitler like Hacha. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, or they may be starved till they agree to sign the terms imposed. PURANI: They can have some food brought to them by parachutists. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, some chemical food to eat surreptitiously. (Laughter) NIRODBARAN: Churchill's statement is not clear about how many divisions of British troops were sent after the fight in Flanders. SRI AUROBINDO: No, he says three — while he says again that twelve divisions were equipped and that was what France was led to Page -734 expect. There may be nine divisions fighting in France and these three, making twelve in all. PURANI: Rajagopalachari is speaking of non-cooperation in France. He says the occupied countries may offer non-cooperation to Hitler. NIRODBARAN: He can be sent to preach and practise it. SRI AUROBINDO: He won't preach very long. He will be given a passport to heaven. (After some time) Japan, is not marching to Indo-China yet. She has appealed to the Axis powers to preserve the status quo there. PURANI: Yes, but if France accepts peace, then Japan may grab it. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, of course. It has been a long-standing aim of Japan to drive out the Europeans from the Far East. If she can do that and come to the Far East, the Near East also won't last very long. PURANI: The Japanese seem to be getting displaced from Chungking. SRI AUROBINDO: That means they don't have their old strength. In former times, once Japan occupied a place, it was impossible to dislodge her. That shows what happens if one gives up one's Swadharma. According to the German advice, to grow tall the Japanese are taking raw meat, wearing shoes and adopting other European customs. In former days, eating grains and with bare feet, they used to fight splendidly, as in the Russo-Japanese war. They may have improved their stature by eating meat but they have lost in other ways. NIRODBARAN: If the Italian colonies in Africa could be seized, which does not seem difficult considering the wonderful fighting quality of the Italians, it would be something. SRI AUROBINDO: And if, in addition, the Italian fleet can be smashed, then it would be bad for Germany too. If England can hold on for one year at least, or two winters, there is a chance. 21 JUNE 1940SRI AUROBINDO (addressing Purani): The armistice seems to have failed; the envoys came back almost immediately yesterday. Hitler must have pressed for complete acceptance or complete refusal and didn't give any chance for discussion. The Page -735 French Government seems to have gone to Morocco from Bordeaux. PURANI: Then it is all right; no more chance of peace. SRI AUROBINDO: Can't say. Pétain is dangerous so long as he is in the Government. NIRODBARAN: If the army could now be withdrawn! SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, that is the first thing to do now. If Hitler had got the French fleet, he would have attacked Africa and taken possession of her colonies. Have you seen the other news? That Roosevelt has taken two Republicans into the Government? PURANI: Yes. SRI AUROBINDO: This is unprecedented in history. PURANI: They have been made secretaries of Navy and War. If he plunges into war, he wants to have the Republican party with him perhaps. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. Another unprecedented step is his standing for a third term. PURANI : The Democrats will nominate him, I hope. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh yes, and then he may decide about the war. If Roosevelt declares war now and somebody else becomes the President, he may disown the policy and it will be very awkward. NIRODBARAN: Italy is not showing herself anywhere — neither on land nor in the air. It seems the Italians could easily be driven out of Africa. Then Mussolini and Hitler can quarrel over France. SRI AUROBINDO: Not so soon. As long as Hitler has England to fight, he will keep Italy with him.
EVENINGAccording to Bhaskar's radio, peace terms have been placed before Pétain. Laval and fifty other Government officials pledge to support Pétain and all the deputies place their confidence in him. But this report seems to contract what Gabriel said. He said that it was all untrue. Plenipotentiaries have not returned. Protests are coming to Pétain from all sides against peace and the Government has been removed from Bordeaux. All communications are to sent to Casablanca in Morocco. SRI AUROBINDO: Probably the plenipotentiaries have refused to sign the terms and Hitler has himself communicated the terms to Page -736 Pétain. That is how the two news reports can be reconciled. Bhaskar's news is sometimes very confusing. NIRODBARAN: What is the next news item about Gandhi being absolved of responsibility by the Working Committee? SRI AUROBINDO: Perhaps they want to start civil disobedience and Gandhi is against it. He has always stood against it. So they may want to go ahead on their own initiative. NIRODBARAN: The Patrika gave the news that British papers had published a message from Wardha that Gandhi and others were trying to start a provisional government with the Hindus, Muslims and the untouchables. SRI AUROBINDO: That must come then from Abul Kalam Azad and the Muslim Premier's conference. PURANI: The American Republican party has disowned the two Republicans Roosevelt has appointed. SRI AUROBINDO: What a pity! Why? PURANI: Because they are strongly pro-English. Not that the Republican party is itself anti-Allies. Spain perhaps will enter the war on Germany's side. NIRODBARAN: She already took the first step by declaring non-belligerency. SATYENDRA: Everybody is taking Hitler's side. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, and those who have not are afraid of him. Unless America declares war, England will be alone. Egypt is also trying to back out. With Gibraltar on one side and the Suez on the other, England will be in a difficult position, unless she can create some revolution in Egypt and bring in Nahash Pasha. Russia is trying to keep out Turkey. NIRODBARAN: Keep out of what? SRI AUROBINDO: Out of the war on the side of the Allies, as a possible troublemaker in the Balkans. Is it true that Italy is bringing down her own planes? (Laughter) It seems, in a raid over some Italian town by English planes, not a single plane was brought down by the Italians and much of their ammunition was wasted for which the commander reprimanded the anti-aircraft personnel and asked them to be more careful next time. In the next English raid the Italians fired accurately and carefully and brought down two out of three planes. But those two turned out to be Italian planes. Page -737 SATYENDRA: Who is this Sir Patro of Madras? He is also clamouring for India's defence. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh, everybody is doing that now. NIRODBARAN: The Congress Working Committee has asked Congressmen to take precautionary measures for defence. What precautionary measures can they take? SRI AUROBINDO: They can make a battle cry with their Charkhas and shoot down the parachutists with them. Gandhi may have disagreed with the Working Committee on this point of defence. Being non-violent, how can he support any defence measures? SATYENDRA: I don't think he will object to others taking them for the sake of the country. SRI AUROBINDO: But on principle he can't allow them. NIRODBARAN: I don't understand how without Gandhi they can launch civil disobedience. It will end in a fiasco. PURANI: Quite so. (Sri Aurobindo smiled.) SRI AUROBINDO (after some time): Russia is following a dangerous policy for herself. Does she think that Hitler will be so damaged by fight with England that Stalin will be able to destroy him by an attack? When Hitler gets the whole of France he will build up his position very strongly; then he might try to blockade England, since a direct invasion of England is out of the question. If the French Navy falls into his hands, he will become tremendously strong. But when England is conquered, he will have all the French colonies and most of the British ones. His next step will naturally be to move towards the Balkans and then a clash with Russia is inevitable unless Hitler has given up his project of becoming master of Europe. The Balkan powers are foolish enough not to see that their turn will come later on. PURANI: England is not going to have Mediterranean engagements with Italy. SRI AUROBINDO: Too much occupied with Africa probable PURANI: If the English can take the whole of Africa from Italy and crush her navy then Italy will be crippled. Her long sea coast will be open to attack everywhere. I don't understand why Egypt is backing out. SRI AUROBINDO: This king can't be trusted; he is a man of the dictator type. He can do anything. NIRODBARAN: Laski has written to America that he expects Labour to make an early agreement with England. Page -738 SRI AUROBINDO: He expects many things that don't come off. He expects that every Frenchman will fight till the last Frenchman falls. NIRODBARAN: The Congress Working Committee admits that some useful purpose has been served by Abul Kalam Azad's talks with the Muslim Premiers and says the talks may continue. PURANI: This Iyengar of Madras is supporting the fifty-percent demands by Muslims. SRI AUROBINDO: Who is he? PURANI: He is a crank, giving opinions when nobody wants them. NIRODBARAN: Oh, somebody was saying that Sir Akbar also demands fifty percent for Muslims. SRI AUROBINDO: That is for Hyderabad where the Muslims have had a monopoly till now. He can't suddenly bring it down to twenty or thirty percent, the same as in Kashmir. There the Hindus had all the monopoly. Now if the Muslim demands are acceded to, the Hindus will be wiped out. PURANI: People here are defending the French Government. They say that the people on the spot know best what the situation is and they have to act accordingly. SRI AUROBINDO: Who are the people? Indians? PURANI: Yes, they say that Hitler has allowed Holland to keep her own Dutch Government. NIRODBARAN: Government is all right. What about the policy? The Dutch will have to follow Hitler's policy. SRI AUROBINDO: Why won't he allow them their own Government? Hitler can bring in his own men to rule everywhere, but I don't think he wants to attach all his conquered countries to Germany. He will make them all vassal states and have them all ruled by their own people. How can he govern all the colonies with his own people? For that matter England can't govern India without the help of Indian officials. Page -739 |